Banned.....FROM CHURCH!

Saturday, October 11, 2008 -

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There Ought To Be A Law

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Banned.....FROM CHURCH!

Banned.....FROM CHURCH!
"In an unusual conflict between a pastor and a member of his flock, the Church of St. Joseph in Bertha, Minn., filed a restraining order last month to stop congregation member 13-year-old Adam from attending church services. In court papers, the church pastor says Adam, who is autistic, is disruptive and dangerous to other parishioners. He claims the 6-foot, 225-pound boy has hit another child, spat at members of the church and urinated in the church.

Adam's mother denies that her son is dangerous and says it's important for him to be able to attend Sunday mass.

Church officials offered to have Adam watch mass from a video feed in the basement. His mother rejected that offer. "From a spiritual standpoint, there's nothing that says watching mass on TV is the same as being present," she said.

His mother confessed Adam has had what she calls "meltdowns" while at church. He lies on the floor and flails his arms and legs. She and her husband have at times needed to sit on Adam or bind his arms and legs with a strip of fleece to get him to calm down. She claims however, his behavior has improved in the last few months.

Several parents who have autistic children are asking churches across the country to reserve a pew for families with autistic children or who otherwise may not be welcome."

Wow! We had a conversation in class tonight about this. Some of us felt, logically, from a business standpoint, the church has to consider the needs of the majority and have the right and obligation to ban this child from attending church there. Others agree with this child's mother and feel the church should and is obligated to go the extra mile to meet his needs while attending church.

I am in the last group and came up with the suggestion of setting aside an area of the sancturary equipped with not only modified seating but extra monitors to help supervise and to aid the needs of church members such as Adam. And area that would have easy access to an exit should behavior become exceptionally disruptive. (I didn't know many parents had been asking for such accomodations at the time as that was not brought up in the conversation)

It was also discussed the possibility that Adam, depending on the severity of his disability. might not have the mental capicity to effectively benefit from attending a Catholic Mass and "attending church" just might in fact be more for the mother than the child.

In the end though, I can't help but wonder, for what ever reason, why would anyone want to continue going somewhere they know they are not welcomed.

Your thoughts?

Replies

7/17/2008 9:58:41 PM From: Ali Our church has a "crying room" set up in the back with a big glass window. There the parents can still see the service while they are tending to their kids and the congregation doesn't have to be subjected to screaming children. Everyone has a bad day once in awhile but if this boy is causing bodily harm to other kids and is disrupting the service every Sunday then I think the church is within its rights to request that he watch the service in the basement. The family can stay for fellowship after the service to help integrate him into the spiritual community, but one or both parents should be supervising this boy at all times.


7/17/2008 10:07:35 PM From: Rani I am fimilar with the "crying room" concept, many churches I have attended have the church nursery set up in a manner where the nursery attendants can still see and hear, via intercom, the service while they take care of the small children. I think such a room as that would also be better than sticking the boy in the basement. That just seems wrong somehow.


7/17/2008 10:09:02 PM From: Rani but goodness, at 13 years old and already 6FT, 225 pounds, I bet he could be rather dangerous when he has a meltdown with all that strength behind him, and as he gets older???


7/17/2008 10:51:48 PM From: eddo Sometimes people have to be restricted from access to public places, and that includes church. This church went out of it's way to protect both the other children and Adam and his mom. How big a lawsuit would come if Adam, during a fit seriously hurt a smaller child or an elderly person? It stinks, but mom should be willing to try to find a church that can better accommodate her and her son.


7/18/2008 2:16:01 AM From: hugo Let him go to church but arm the deacons. Tell his mother junior will be shot if he acts up. Bet mom will find another church.


7/18/2008 4:51:10 AM From: mercury I'm willing to bet that he has his biggest problems while the congregation is singing hymns.... happened EVERY time we took Collin. He's able to handle it better now, still has difficulty with it, but no meltdowns. I'm torn... as usual. From a personal stand point: Let the boy go to church! from a societal stand point: he needs to be controlled... and if mom can't control him, she needs to stay home with him.


7/18/2008 7:03:17 AM From: MrsK What ever happened to crying rooms?


7/18/2008 7:06:35 AM From: MrsK I would have howevr considered it a major insult to offer to accomodate the child in a BASEMENT. That goes hand in hand with leaving harelipped or deformed babies out to die in the night... Or hiding a retarded child in the attic.


7/18/2008 7:22:51 AM From: Chi Hey, maybe it's a very nice basement:p My questions are 1. Would he also be a threat to the kids/babies and people in a "crying room"? And 2. Is his mom or whomever able to restrain if need be? (especially as he gets older and stronger) 3. Does he even want to attend these services and even understand what is going on? Also, as Rani mentioned why would his mom be insistant in being somewhere where her son is obviously not wanted/welcomed? That alone would discourage me from attending there anymore. Plus, I wouldn't want to continue being so disruptive and such a nuisance to everyone there.


7/18/2008 7:23:22 AM From: Chi *restrain him


7/18/2008 7:26:03 AM From: Ali Smaller churches here in the north typically have only the official church above ground and then the kitchen, fellowship hall, classrooms and recreation areas are in the basement. It's not like he's being banned to a dark, leaky cement dungeon filled with spiders. I'm guessing this church doesn't have another area above ground where he can go and not disrupt or attack other people during the service.


7/18/2008 7:28:04 AM From: Ali If the family still insists that their son be allowed to attend this particular church, then perhaps a special room or addition could be added for him. However, the family damn well better be donating to the cause and participating fully in the fundraising needed for the building.


7/18/2008 8:34:10 AM From: emkay64 Let him stay. Church is boring and I wouldn't mind a little entertainment.


7/18/2008 9:44:37 AM From: mercury There's a girl at mom's church - she's 27, mentally retarded with the mind of a 9 year old. I'd like to see someone tell Amy that she couldn't go to church. I'm sure she'd barge right in, anyway. She refuses to exchange peach offerings with anyone and don't you even THINK about hugging her! But attending mass is VERY important to her, so I'd question the thinking that it's not for him, but for mom. She has her good days and her bad days... the entire congregation humors her and welcomes her.


7/18/2008 9:47:13 AM From: Rani That could explain why the mother is so hell bent for Adam to attend the Mass, in person and not by some media feed.


7/18/2008 9:48:01 AM From: Rani I agree the church could and should come up with a better solution that a media feed or banning the guy.


7/18/2008 9:50:50 AM From: mercury peach offerings? lol well, they are almost in season ;o) peace


7/18/2008 9:56:26 AM From: emkay64 mmmmmmm....donut peaches.....


7/18/2008 10:14:19 AM From: wildbob When I was a kid I attended a pretty small church. There was one little old lady who loved to sing her praises to the lord. She sand very loud. The problem was that she had the voice of a cartoon character and seemed to be tone deaf as well. Whenever she was in attendence and the congregatin stated singing, it would often also start a round of giggling and outright laughter. My brother and I found this most entertaining.


7/18/2008 10:19:28 AM From: wildbob You also see this issue with "mainstreaming" in the public school system. That is where developmentally disablied kids are placed in classes with "normal" kids. The problems with mainstreaming are the increaed workloads on teachers of the mainstreamed kids. One of my kids was in class with a child that couldn't speak or read and was confined to a wheelchair. I never once saw anything in that childs eyes that made me believe that they even knew they were in a classroom. That child have to have an aid with them all the time(paid for by the school district). One of the strangest moments was when we went to a concert by the school band. Of course the child in the wheelchair was there, head hanging to her side drooling, while her aid held her hand and banged on a drum. It was just bizzare. But that's the way it is now here on the left coast.


7/18/2008 10:39:45 AM From: emkay64 We went to the funeral of a family friend and the pastor had a lisp. It was awful. My brother and I kept laughing. I'd like him to deliver my eulogy.


7/18/2008 10:40:34 AM From: emkay64 ^^^^Woops....wrong post! Shoulda' been in the funeral one. Crap!


7/18/2008 10:46:27 AM From: eddo lol, it fits. :)


7/18/2008 1:08:48 PM From: Ali I'm guessing his behavior must have been pretty awful for the church to actually petition for a restraining order against him. I think the congregation's safety should come before this mother's wish for her child to attend services. Perhaps the pastor would be willing to perform a separate service for Adam and his family either at the church or at their home. That seems like a reasonable and cost effective solution to me.


7/18/2008 1:36:29 PM From: emkay64 If my 6foot tall 250 lb. "child" pissed inside the church. I think I would have arranged to have him stay at home. I might suggest a plexiglass box used for "troublesome" parishoners. That way he can piss in there roll, around screaming, flailing legs etc. without hurting anyone, and then they can hose it out after. Give me a break, I can't believe this is even a discussion. Heeeeeee's OUT!